ALV January 2014/Minutes

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Chair: A.P.Marijnessen minute taker: Vesna

ALV starts at 15:13, at that time 28 members present; majority is 15

Moving the point about "defence of a banned member" to the first point.

Defence of a banned member

Contact: Wizzup

Wizzup tells the story, from the side of the board.(UR = Urban Resort, our landlord)
Justa explains again.

15:19 (29 people, 15 needed for majority)

Abraham tells the story from his PoV. Personal situation; about the sleeping issue... Q: can the decision be revoked? Yes. OK, Abraham tells his version. Makes a point abou difference between sleeping or napping. Questions to ask, comments? 
Reactions from Wizzup & Justa... 
Wizzup explains voting points. 
Remco: are you interested in the hackerspace things, to take part, or just to hang out? (Rep explains Remco's point... from his PoV...) 
Wizzup: if UR decides Abraham is not welcome... we can't do anything... 
Putting the voting points in reverse order: 
*Revert the previous decision of the board completely.
*Abraham being allowed as a member, but have no keys [similar to the above, but has membership benefits]
*Abraham being allowed in the space as long as there is another member. (no keys)
*Abraham being allowed to enter -only- on socials, as nonmember.
*Enforcing the previously chosen course of action. (ban) 
Stef: two stories, difficult to judge. I'd like to not exclude anyone. Can we say "we will start, and then evaluate, after some time"  
Justa: this can always be put in the next ALV. 

Majority will be decided not on the total number of present, but out of "yes"/"no" votes. (15:30 was 30 members!)


VOTE: Revert the previous decision of the board completely
RESULT: yes 0, no 23, abstain 6 (missing 1)

VOTE: Abraham being allowed as a member, but have no keys [similar to the above, but has membership benefits]
RESULT: yes 16 (no more)

(we skip other points)

Abraham gets a vote paper... (So from now on we have 31 votes I think?)

Approving the notes from the previous meeting

ALV October 2013/Actions (based on the longer ALV October 2013/Minutes) Approved.

Finalising agenda (any new points?)

Literal texts are important, but if one word needs changing that should be allowed. Based on need or pragmatism.

Financial report from ex-treasurer about 2012

Not here. MadEddie. Not happening. Activity from 2012 still has to be approved by ALV.
New treasurer & his shadow are working on the report themselves. Will be ready Real Soon Now™.

Notes from the board

(At least: Abraham, HXX loan, CCC, Work on administration system, LDAP?, Digitalising ID cards, Doorbot project?)

Justa gives short report. Abraham's case dealt with; HXX loan for borg had to be paid back; new loan was given to TechInc by Vesna; all administration with this is done now.

Philip: how come that there was a confusion about 1800/2000 amount? 
Can we have the financial report longer before  the ALV? Yes. 

CCC - we were present there, but it was not a "board" thing. Spacenet. Digitalisation project is progressing (ID's are mandatory for us to keep, by UR). Doorbot project is in progress. Power-bars project done. (thanks to the unnamed person using pink colour to correct spelling mistakes ;-)

Financial report about 2013

It was emailed to the list. Wizzup is going to read it. (TODO: let's put this on the wiki!) NOTE to all: subscribe to the mailing list; read the mailing list. 99 members! => NEXT NEW MEMBER will be NUMBER 100 Philip: people who pay 0 should be included in the numbers. More irrelevant comments from the membership...

Report from the secretary

Current number of members (on paper) and estimated number of still-current ("actual"/"paying") members.

(covered by Wizzup in his financial report)

Financial outlook on 2014 ( Including recommendation on moving )

Wizzup: estimated income: as sent in email.

Q: Why is the November amount lower? ("where did you lose the money in November"? ;-) 
A: We maybe lost few members... 

Plans for WG: 2000/month cost, 1600 income. Gap: 400/month. There is a pledge running... to pay extra... for a while. Without using savings.

Q: Does 2000 include water, electricity, ... 
A: Yes. 

(16:20 31 members in total. majority: 16)

Statement of board

On how many people pay the "suggested minimum" amount (or very close to that) or less.

(covered by Wizzup in his financial report)

Let's form the committee to control the Financial report: Philip, Paul, Merielle, Maarten.

Q: How many people canceled membership? 
A: 10

Philip: can you add how many funds board spent on "daily running" of the space, in the report?

A: 15 in total. 
Q: Money from donations?
A: We don't know... This is outside of the administration, it's voluntary donations, spent on drinks & food.
Q: Were the members' boxes of those who canceled taken back? 
A: Maybe ... A lot of them didn't have boxes

Voting for new board members.

Standing applause for the leaving board members, Marc and Melinda! Presenting themselves: Ctrl-K. Brainsmoke. Voting results: both were accepted. Applause. (BREAK for all the other people...) Several people left, made "proxy votes" for others; one extra person...)

Votable points.

0 Moving

Remco explains about ACTA building possibilities and future. Lecture room will be refurbished, 150 seats, possible to use ... From time to time other spaces get freed up... Wizzup: intro to WG terein: 340m2, plus very tall ceiling. (?!) Price: 2000. We are not sure if we can even get the space, since there are other interested parties. WG-commission will decide between 3 finalists. Description by Chottee & Wizzup & Justa about the facilities...

Q: Risks? 
A: Can we afford it? How many members will we get extra, and how many will we lose? 
Q: Will we go bankrupt? 
A: Not that fast. 
Q: Terms of the contract - how long is the cancelation period? 
A: We will have to ask tomorrow? 
Q: There is no fiber? 
A: No, but there are possibilities... 
Q: What kind of the Internet
A: Will ask...
Q: What kind of contract will we get?
A: Don't know. 
Maarten: place is high, what about scaffolding? Philip has it, to lend. 

Moving means a lot of re-doing infrastructure, and it means extra costs. For few months, will we have double rent? One or two months. WG will rent it to us from March. (TODO: All those questions need to be asked on Monday, from the committee!)

Peter: Pledge system: let's ask in advance, do not just go for it and ask later.
Justa: let's make a plan, and get people to commit to doing the work. 

WG pics:

Acta2: 46m2 (but lose the storage space); has a kitchenette; a window too. Concrete beam. We can make a door in between. (can we build the wall in front?) 1600 e/month total. About 500.

(17:22 33 members; 17 majority)

If there is no 50%+ that option falls off.

first pref: wg: 22 acta++: 13 none: ?

second preference:

   acta++ (beamer) : 18 
Justa: we WILL need people to organise THE MOVE! 
Marteen: What if WG terein has terms that we can no accept? 
A: Wizzup: Shall we form a comittee to decide on the WG terein offer? 

Committee: (in addition to the board...) Philip, Peter, Stef, Ctrl-K, Chottee, JinX, Erwin, Voidz0r, Maarten, Abraham. ON MONDAY, TUESDAY & WEDNESDAY. Email in IRL.

we managed to agree on a method to order pizza. it took 10 mins. #techinc forever.

1 Membership fee per month

(18:00 one person left. )

Vote: Split into 1a) & 1b) and 1c) 1a) Possible to pay monthly. Inclusion of possibility to pay monthly. Majority for yes. Two trolls for no. 1b) Before the 7th.. Unless board allows exception.

Result: Yes 26. No 3. Abst 3.

This will be added to the wiki pages: payments, rules, etc.

2 Commitment to membership fee

Contact: c&b: webmind a: ultratux

Very complex, adds clarity but on the expense of too much work on the treasurer, and lots of restrictions on members. ArdaXi: board can not make any predictions, so this would make it easier. Webmind's intention was to make members to make commitments. He is not here to defend it.


RESULT: 2a: yes 14 no 10 abstainees 6 (32) -> passes because it had more yes then no. 2b: yes 7 no (more) -> rejected 2c: yes 5 no (overwhelming majority) -> rejected

3 Membership for existing members

majority against. Asking to vote again: reconsider 2a: drop it? yes (majority)

(WE HAVE JUST LOST HALF AN HOUR OF OUR LIVES FOR 30 PEOPLE, voting on the points that are later voted out) The spirit of techinc \o/

4 Non paying members

(TODO: rename "the payment" to "... whatever" -- all the missing payments?? -. DREAMER! "what you are due") TODO: rename "you will receive an email" instead of "automated email" yes: 22 no: (neve mind)

5 Warning system and revoking membership access privileges

This in no way takes away rights of members to complain about this treatment, bring issues to ALV etc.

RESULT: Passed

6 Making the established rules part of the huishoudelijk reglement to ratify them

ultratux thinks it's not written up in good enough language. big discussion. voting on the spirit of the point. Vote: Our rules, as published on the wiki since $date, shall from now on become part of the huishoudelijk reglement.

Vote: Do not be on fire Result: yes: 16 no: 9 abstain: 6

Vote: Don't use power tools unless you've had a safety briefing on them first. Don't defeat or hack safety features/equipment. Result: yes: 26 no: 5

Vote: Concerning major activities, or future events ask the community. If you have a question or in any way in doubt about something, ask the community. Result: yes: 2 no: majority

Vote: The primary means for communication is the general mailing list. Justa proposes of the rephrase of the text. Official .. of the association... towards members... Result:

There is an announce list, but no one has subscribe to it Vote no to 3 so that next ALV we can pepare this point better: Vote result for the question 'in favour of skipping this, put up your hands: 25 in favour, pint revoked Discussion about the lack of discussion on the mailinglist. Everybody is asked to respond on points before the ALV so that it does not take so long. Discussion about the time of closing the exact phrasing of the agenda.

4. not agreed 5. upon leaving - not agreed 6. respect fellow members - agreed

Stef question: what is a huishoudelijk reglement

7. no sleeping in the place - agreed 8. storage - the point will be dropped and rephrased in next ALV

7 Dispute Resolution Group

Do we want a Dispute resolution group? should be 3 persons according to the proposal approved on ALV Group has no power but gives heavy weighting advise (but would be bad for the board if they do not hear the group).

Maarten: no real reason to do this.
Arnd: what is you have a compliant about the board itself? Then this could be important

Abraham would like to rephrase it to a mediator group that should try to prevent escalations

Break because of pizza (thanks for arranging ..!)

20:25 resume the meeting still ?27? votes left, less people voidz0r wants bigger group fe 6 persons

Arnd: board should not be choosing the group

next alv make this clearer were not going to vote on people now who want to do this : next alv but now first vote on the actual proposed point

adopting dispute group in favour 29 so agreed next ALV we vote for people

8 Fixed Annual ALV

There is already an annual meeting needed for the financial approval as stated in the statutes Might be handy to have a yearly fixed date for choosing board members The proposal says ' we want a fixe date' (even if there is nothing to discuss) Vote: 14 yes 13 no 3 abstain So The board will announce an ALV in January 2015

9 Political Parties

pirate party wanted to do something in our space caused discussion what do we want? current phrase is very strict in opinion of several people would exclude even inviting people from parties to take part in discussions in favour: 6 against: majority => agreed. this will not be part of the huishoudelijk reglement

10 Access to the space

are all members always welcome in the space? fe tv crew made that you could not work in the space fe during food hacking could you be in the space without taking part in the food hacking fe women only meeting vote: 12 favour, 12 against, 1 abstain. Rejected

Extra points

   - realigaps: weekly meetings to get stuff done. Half an hour, minutes published. On Sunday. Taking resposibility to get stuff done
     - justa also take points for the agenda there
   - tg: assign proxy electronically
       - justa: this has happened today 
   - phicoh: quorum for agenda point?
     - nods, work on it
     - abraham: finds it a weird requirement. Other associations don't do it.
     - justa's VVE does something like that. Also has a bewonersraad to prepare agenda items
     - chotee: if you can't find 5 out of 40 people.
     - realigaps doesn't want to force this
     - abraham: could be 'vetoing'. Somebody could still bring an interesting point.
       - rob and justa: not a veto
     - ultratux: either on the mailing list or votes
       - justa: not the time to hash out details
       - ultratux: may be the board should split ALVs
   - Stef: end time for ALVs
     - wizzup: you can't limit to amount of agenda points. Time to discuss ill formed agenda points.
     - justa: reason for allowing ill formed agenda points. Three committees produced nothing. I wanted to do something painfull to get something done
     - rob: agrees with justa.
   - abraham: wants to be back on the members. Solution: resubscribe
   - rob: suspend point if proponent isn't there?
   - wizzup: better transparency on financials?
     - dreamer: raw data

Justa closed the meeting.