ALV March 2019/Minutes

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1 Admin

1.1 Number of people present, number of proxy votes, guests?

Start time: 19:15

12 members present (4 proxy votes, 2 guests)

quorum 9

Katje opens

1.2 Approving the notes from the previous meeting

Approve 16 Against 0 Abstain 0


1.3. Finalizing agenda (any new points?)

Added items during any other business from bigmac and drwhax

2. Reports

2.1 Report from the board

DrWhax: last year (March) we were busy with an incident from a former member who threatened to send a lawyer after us, etc. The person complained about us publishing information about him. This was a while ago, but in 2018 he thus tried to threaten us with a lawyer, a couple days before an ALV in March 2018.

We tried to go into mediation with no 3rd party present for 2 times, including phone calls, one very long and intense one and a short one.

After that, indepently from the phone call, we have undertaken some small actions, some current and former board members, individually, apologized to him. He was also invited, on his own behalf, to talk during the "any other business" for at least one ALV in May. He didn't bother to show up. It's been silent on this front since May 2018, but 3 hours before the ALV he tried to contact us again by reading some of his demands....

In February the board decided to stop doing drinks.

We had a policy change, we previously asked for 20 euro a month, now we ask for 25.

DrWhax recently mailed a break down of how many people pay what amount.

DrWhax is worried about the lack income from drinks.

Katje: that's why we got the money drawer. (it's actually two people from Revspace who gave it to us)

DrWhax: I feel the space is becoming a bit normal again after some intense ALVs last year. The association needs to trust the board (personal opinion of DrWhax).

We have a lot of members, around 120. But I don't see a lot of activity.

Katje: we have member who don't come but support us. Still haven't seen quite a few members. I have been member for 2 years now.

New shelving for memberboxes. Bookshelves thanks to oberiod. Fixed cable salad. Got rid of the organ (it's in the hall now, downstairs). Electricity has improved.

Bigmac: servers still have to be switched to new power.

Katje: new safe in the wall with key to be bigger safe. Big safe has key to small one. Thanks to Bigmac for installing it.

Ultratux: is the first point now laid to rest.

DrWhax: we got an email this afternoon from the person who cannot be named. Someone asked if this problem will get solved, DrWhax says he thinks the problem is not solved or will be solved from the look of it.

Ultratux: lawyers?

DrWhax: we never actually got our own lawyer (except for pro-bono legal advice)

Negotiations fell apart. We only do a step in his direction if he does the same, he hasn't so far..

Piele: you got an email today, when was the last time before that?

Katje: first in 2019, not since the last ALV.

DrWhax: one of the last emails, end of May 2018

Piele: communication just before and after the May 2018 ALV. That died out and now he dropped a bombshell.

DrWhax: we invited him for the May ALV, didn't show up. Didn't hear from him around the Nov. ALV.

Justa: was there anything from him after I resigned?

Katje/DrWhax: no

Katje: anybody object to his email to be read out? (extra agenda item now moved forward)

Justa: he has made in past clear that he felt we were silencing him. We made it clear that if he comes then we will discuss it.

Piele: devils advocate, we can also not read this.

WFK: in favor of reading it out. It is his statement

Justa: you can also tell him ask for an invitation

Bigmac: do people feel it should be read out?

DrWhax: we (some board members and some dispute committee members) decided that we wanted to read his statement. The board has shown good will. He has not used it.

Chotee: next ALV and he does this again? Repond in the same way?

WFK: tell him no next time

Ultratux: in favor of transparency

Katje: *reads the email*

Piele: who has a lighter

Katje: money spent on legal is zero

Piele: interesting that he "knew" money was spent

Katje: allocated money for legal

Quint: what happens to the money

Katje: money is back in reserves

DrWhax: still money reserved in current budget, we don't think it will be spent, but it was reserved just in case.

Katje: we can discuss if we need it for 2020 budget, later this year.

Piele: what about point closed.

Quint: move on

2.2 Financial report

Justa: in discussing fob money, if it is taken out of donation bowl, transfer to drinks account.

Quint: does not want to get involved in drinks finances

<missing vote details>

Financial report is not approved, needs drinks added to the financial report and needs to be brought back to next ALV.

2.3 Report from the Kascontrole committee

None of the members is present.

DrWhax: reads mail from Kascontrole committee to board.

Piele: what about the drinks account

WKF: you can not have a bank account without financial report

Phicoh: will provide numbers over 2018 of the drinks account

2.4 Appointing new Kascontrole committee 2019

Katje: postponing

Favor 13 Against 0 Abstain 3


2.5 Report from the social media committee

Chotee: since the last ALV as far as he knows there has been no change

Katje: due to not enough members

Ultratux: not everybody needs to be present

Katje: more than two seems not possible

WFK: try IRC

Bigmac: it is the media committee. Committee says we are social media committee. The committee refuses to deal with the website.

Katje: we either deal with the website or update the HR

Ultratux: people don't do anything because they claim they don't meet

Chotee: is it an issue of access?

Realitygaps does the website but is not member of the media committee

Piele: people with access are now present.

Chotee: how is this relevant, you just ask somebody

Quint: people with access need to be listed

Katje: come back to this during any other business

2.6 Report from the dispute committee

Chotee: no disputes. Vesna has joined during last ALV in Nov 2018.

3.0 Board elections

Counting: Quint, Piele

Katje, DrWhax, and Wizzup are re-elected

4. Votable points

4.1. Feeding volunteers by Quint

Justa: how long do people have to be at the event? If you come just 20 min. before food arrives.

Quint: There is some amount of trust involved. For example, cleanup event, if you clean, you get pizza, this was an example at Revspace. Don't clean, don't. Incentive to let people stay longer.

Chotee: reminder how we did it here. Somebody would say, I'll cook. For 2.50 you have food.

Quint: you can use the money to cook. Disadvantage is effort to cook. revspace used it to make badges for events. Or when they did flooring.

NYCResistor does the same during large scale events.

Ultratux: event type is not defined

Quint: space improvement

Chotee: why from 1 day to 48 hours?

Katje: a day is a bit blurry, announce event just before midnight for the next day. Trying to find holes.

Quint: if you can find one other person and the board agrees. The reason for not including the 48 hours. If it is late, you want to fix something the next day. Wants to remove barriers.

WFK: If approval from the board is required to need for 48 hours


day in advance: 10 48 hours: 4 abstain: 2


favor: 14 against: 0 abstain: 2


4.1.1 Amendment(s) by Katje

4.2. Trust board with payments by DrWhax

DrWhax: currently we have complex rules. Try to reduce the complexity, we could already do it and ignore HR. We choose not to.

Katje: 2 amendments, 1) keep 3 months in the bank and notify the members if drops too low. 2) report if the spend more than 50 in a week.

Quint: if we trust the board, then we don't trust them to keep enough in the bank or with small amount

WFK: anything would end up in annual report. So you can just have a budget for discretionary spending.

Katje: there is correct, but nothing stops board from spending all the money

WFK: you can do that anyhow

Bigmac: this is why we vote for board members. We trust them. If they make a mess we don't elect them again.

Justa: reporting everything every time is not something you should promise. Second agrees that the board can be trusted. In past we didn't have money. Now we have. It never went wrong. It would be nice to have a more frequent report of the money in the bank account.

Katje: withdraw amendment 2.

Quint; can you do that if there are proxy votes.

Chotee: just recommend against

Katje: vote about amendment 2

Favor: 0 Against: 16


Katje: vote about amendment 1

Favor: 13 Against: 3 Abstain: 0


Complete motion: Favor 16 Against: 0 Abstain: 0


4.2.1 Amendment by Katje

See above

5.0. Left overs from the previous meetings?

Nothing brought to the table.

6. Any other business

Bigmac: report on power, kitchen and floor

DrWhax: wants to talk about drinks

Bigmac: power, needs help with interface to meter. It has opto couplers

Katje; how many groups

Bigmac: 12 plus 2 'power current' Maker lane and solder lane are not converted. Need more cable. Need 30 euro.

Katje: make wish list.

Bigmac: not going to pull more cables myself.

Quint: offers to help pull cables

Bigmac: kitchen. Bad drawers. Most cutlery under drawers. Costs 200 if you buy new. Also problem with height. Need volunteers.

Bigmac: floor, kitchen area is gross. Soldering could use better floor

Justa: has floor material.

Bigmac: whole space laminaat would be 750 euro at IKEA.

Justa: not good when wet, especially in kitchen area

Ultratux; discussion on IRC. Height difference. Revspace suggest vinyl tiles. Why not all laminaat.

Brainsmoke: good thing if it is a lot of work, brings people together

Justa: don't need to do whole space in one go. Warn against putting it on carpet. Might become springy. If it is MDF, worried about water.

Bigmac: works fine in his kitchen.

Ultratux: dirty room floor is on top of carpet.

Katje: kitchen?

Bigmac: just lift the fridges

Ultratux: raising kitchen is not work effort, get better rails.

Bigmac: better get new drawers.

Katje: like to idea of improving kitchen

Justa: just the drawer is just not good

Katje: take it to mailing list

WFK: 250 euro is not a lot

DrWhax: given that the board has stopped dealing with drinks. Propose to kill drinks account.

Bigmac: cash drawer could be revbank controlled. The point was to separate drinks. Now no bowl.

WFK: two money flows, donations and drinks

Katje: donations can go in the safe

Quint: not everybody knows

Katje: put some text on the safe

Chotee: do you have numbers?

Katje: tools by Justa, but nobody took over.

Justa: tools are only what you should get, not what you got.

Bigmac: we got some agreement on profit margin. I'm doing that.

Quint: blackhole because cash. Proposal is sit down and look at money in, money out.

Katje: make it so.

Quint: response was not encouraging. Should be a way to get profit.

WFK: would be willing to help if it can be done remotely.

Quint: should be an obvious hole.

Katje: should have looked at revbank

Bigmac: should have factored in drinks in the space.

Quint: can start from zero

Ultratux; membership should decide if even if make a modest loss, does it make sense to cover that

Bigmac: messy withdrawls for small amounts. Beers are bought from cash or added as deposite to revbank

Katje: Monday night, try to get on top of it. Who wants to come: Bigmac, WFK, XXX, Quint. Will get pizza.

Justa: found mail from Jan 2018. With observations about 2017.

Justa: revbank is unmaintained. Network team kept it running.

Ultratux: I thought that the board took it.

Phicoh: no, bank account is just to avoid cash

Ultratux: you can't do it half way

Katje: just be there on Monday

Katje: discuss events, open hackerspace day. Bigmac and Andreas

Justa: one last comment. I don't know if revbank keeps logs.

Piele: I can explain

<piele showed revbank logs after the ALV meeting closed>

Closed at 22:11