View source for Bikeshed

Here we try and document previous discussions, outcomes or arguments for/against. This is to help new members know a bit of the history in discussions. Do note that something having been discussed does not mean it cannot be discussed again, arguments and opinions change


= payments =

== Why no automatic incasso? ==

===Cons===
* in short, expensive and risky.
* see notes from ALV from March 2017: [[ALV-20170311-notes]]
* costs: https://www.abnamro.nl/nl/zakelijk/betalen/tarieven/sepa-betalingsverkeer/girale-betalingen.html

===Solutions===

* Those wanting to pay by AI, pay a deposit of €60, just like they do with the fob, this covers any costs that may be incurred by them cancelling their payment on their side without informing techinc that it's going to happen. Member gets this money back of the cancel their membership through the correct channels (informing board etc...), same as they do the deposit on their key fob.

= keeping the space clean/tidy =

== cleaning ==

=== bounties ===

see also: https://revspace.nl/Schoonmaakbounties

=== cleaner ===
A recurring subject is whether to hire a cleaner or not. 

==== Arguments for ====

* space is a mess and not getting cleaned as much as it should
* some members might be quite willing to pay for this until we are good on income for rent (i am, -stef)

==== Arguments against ====

* we should be able to clean up after ourselves, diy-space and all.
* no money for it
* we should have a structure that supports members cleaning up (like bounty)
* Training a cleaner to not bin what is valued hardware, because they may not recognise it. 
* Limited scope for what a cleaner could do, largely limited to vacuum the floor, clean the Kitchen area, sort out dirty dishes, give tables good scrubbing, throw away food(containers) that people left, clean out fridges, dust off stuff  etc...

=== Other suggestions ===

* Roomba!

== tidying ==

Before cleaning can happen, the place needs to be tidy.

Some different suggested structures

* everyone 'cleans' up their stuff.
* 3 weeks + free for all
* ?

=== How 3weeks + free-for-all works ===

this process is detailed in the  [[Three_weeks_-_free_for_all]] page. 

= Pets =

== Mice ==

We have wild mice.

== Lethal/Nonlethal Mousetraps ==
https://wiki.techinc.nl/index.php/ACTA/mouse_trap

=== PRO ===
* People are not allergic/have fobias

=== CONS ===
* Traps need to be checked

== Cats ==
* discussed on irc at 2017-04-11

=== PRO ===
* Cats are cute
* Cats help against mice
* Cats are cute

=== CON ===
* unclear whether this is allowed by landlord (UR)
* cat needs taking care of (attention, food, empty litter, prevent cat peeing on lasercutter, vet trips, etc)
* there are members with cat allergies
* keeping a cat locked up in the space all the time is considered by some to be cruel
* if we have a cat, we can't have the door open such as we do on social nights
* not all cats are good mousers, we may end up with a softy who doesn't hunt
* Cats don't always eat the whole mouse, expect to find some kidneys and part eaten mice on the floor
* cat hair, everywhere...

== Snakes ==

=== PRO ===
* helps against mice?

=== CON ===
* snake fobias

= Bicycles in the space =

Issue: sometimes people bring, store or work on bicycles in the space. This takes up space and concerns have been voiced.

Last ALV vote on the issue:[https://wiki.techinc.nl/index.php/ALV_2013_04_06/Minutes ALV_2013_04_06]

There was a clear majority against banning bikes in the space at that time (1 in favour of banning, 13 against, 9 abstain)