ALV May 2014/Minutes
- Agenda: ALV May 2014
- Actions: ALV May 2014/Actions
ALV
19:05
25 "votes" : 22 people, 3 proxy votes; 13 votes are needed for majority.
Agenda has been announced in advance: https://wiki.techinc.nl/index.php/ALV-9-May-2014
There was one item added afterwards in 4.6.1. , suggested by Philip.
Other changes to the agenda:
- voting point about "terms for the board members" was placed before the board elections. Justa gave an explanation about the reasons.
Q: Will you (Justa) continue to chair this meeting? A: Let's pick this up later.
- voting for the members of the dispute group moved after the board elections.
we skip 2.6; instead of "point 3" we do 4.6 ; then 2.6
1.2 Approving the minutes from previous ALV
Comment: if the actions are extracted, they should reflect the minutes taken. Minutes taken should be in chronological order and complete.
Vote: 22 agree, other options were not asked.
1.3 Anything else on the agenda?
2.1.2 addition: vote for the committee for the next year's review
2. Reports
2.1.1 Report form the (ex) treasurer
It is sent to the list. Summary, break-down per month, balance table. It mostly seems to add up. Main things: loan was repaid, but it was too much (for few hundred euros). Main expense: rent: paid 13 times. One Mate order was paid from the account.
2.1.2 Maarten: We started checking quite late, there was not much time. Most work went reconsiling bank-pdf with the official report. The numbers are higher on the bank statements; but we trust that it is all correct anyway.
((official text:
We started checking the financial report Wednesday evening
Initially we had a lot of questions and there also was a disagreement about the questions in the committee.
Most work went into explaining differences between the yearly bank statement and the report. We have reconciled large parts of it, and the treasurer was cooperative. Due to lack of time we could not investigate and explain all of the differences, but we have enough confidence to say we trust that it is okay. We do regret that we lacked the time to properly do this though.
This notwithstanding, we recommend to the ALV to discharge the treasurer for the financial conduct over 2013.
))
Philip: This report presents balance, income & expenses. 3rd category can be "cash flow". That could be an additional thing for the committee to prepare.
Justa: Bank also gives an option to download yearly statement.
Mariel: We did look into this, and it all adds up.
Becha: Was donation money counted in or out? No, offically we did not count on that money.
Vote of ALV: 21 for. Abstenee: 3 No: 2
Worth noting: report for 2012 is not finished yet.
Mariel: Can the approval committee have it 2 weeks in advance?
Becha: Can the members
New committee, for 2014: Mariel, Webmind, Barbara.
For reviewing 2012 report: Barbera, Maarten.
2.2 Financial report from 2014
((19:35 MUSE arrived late; now there are 26 "votes", therefore the majority needed is 14!))
Brainsmoke was appointed a treasuser only 6 weeks ago (or so; check!)
The main message is: we are paying more then there is income.
Details: https://wiki.techinc.nl/index.php/Financials_2014
(AMRAN! hi :) +1
We are missing about 300 Euros per month.
We are considering that we might not be able to pay for the storage room.
Justa: we started sending reminders in March, in hope that people will pay what they have forgotten.
Einstein : How many people are late? 25. And another group of 15 that with unclear status. Only 3 people confirmed that they indeed want to cancel membership.
Webmind: From the minutes of the previous ALV looks like that there was a recommendation to give up storage space.
Maarten: 3 reminders; statutes say that the board can terminate membership at their will. I suggest that people who are more than 6 months late be kicked out.
Muse: Did we agree that there is a year commitment? No.
Webmind: The statutes are clear about it? Justa: Statutes say that member becomes a member for a year. But the "spirit" was that we prefer to allow members to join or cancel per year.
Wizzup: people who are late usually ... are not malicious
Muse: We can ask them to pay late dues.
((19:50 Mark-Jan arrived, so now there are 27 people; majority is 14!))
Justa: We did not have such a case.
Webmind: I think we should stick to the statutes.
Add this thing to the next ALV: yearly membership, monthly payment dichotomy.
Philip: it looks like we have stable number. 1600 / 65 people = 25 e per month. We should agree to increase our monthly contribution. Not voting on this, but only suggesting it. Consequence otherwise could be that we lose the second room.
Barbara: Is this temporary? A: Whatever you decide.
Justa: people do not pay 20 on average; there are some who pay less than "recommended"...
Maarten: there are people who pay yearly... Maarten: how about fobs-DB? Door-bot? Activated fobs by Urban Resort?
Door-bot: unique 73
Marijel: shortage in the monthly income -- shall we add this on the wiki? Do we have to vote? No.
Voidz0r: We voted against raising the minimum. I suggest to recommend a range.
Wizzup: shall we have an informal vote?
Brainsmoke: 25 for new members, because this is how much we need to cover expenses.
Informal vote: do we want a range or a fixed number.
What will be the next recommended fixed ammount? 25? WITH the note "make it clear that this is what is needed" WITH the review of this "need" after 6 months (Realitygaps) , or when we have 2 months of reserves (Philip).
25: abstenees: 3; against: 0; The rest - in favour.
Recap: income was going down; we will consider getting rid of storage space; any volunteers to help out (not now) ? skinnr, voizd0r, We voted on the 25 euros;
Maarten: let's look at the money that "maarten" paid 500. We will look into the bank statements, and correct the "monthly finanacial report" on the wiki.
- spending from the board allowance - was not done on the regular basis.
- what is the status of the tax situation? Confirmed by Belastingdienst on the phone, but no paper to show. We can use that money. Implict confirmation will be if we get tax-return. There is a high ceeling per year.
Wizzup: lets ask people to pay for the whole year?
Brainsmoke: we need to NOT count on that money, because this is an "asset" (GET THE TEXT FROM THE RECORDING!)
cmpxchg: Improving margin on Mate: get it cheaper, keep the sales price the same.
Philip: anything paid in cash is extremely annoying. Recommendation to the board is stay away from the donation jar.
Justa: if we get confirmation by Belastingdienst, we can add that money to the bank account. Wizzup: it can be a separate bank account.
Muse: only do it in emergencies.
Maarten: shall we discuss tax status while the minutes are made?
Justa: no problem ;-)
Chotee: please do move donations money to the bank account, for security reasons.
Justa: there is lots of money, but the growth is not there.
8:30 break
8:42 continue
- financial outlook on 2014:
If we do not take measures, we get in trouble. Let's implement the changes we agreed on.
Formal vote on getting rid of the storage room: no : 2 absteinee: 3+4 yes: 18
2.3 Membership report: Around 100 members on paper, 58 to 65 paying members
(I will add these numbers later)
Maarten: Why the difference between 58 & 65?
Wizzup: We did email people before, and it was more effective.
Wizzup: someone said that we could send monthly invoices...
2.4 Notes from the board
house rules: https://wiki.techinc.nl/index.php/Huishoudelijk_Reglement
Only the items that were clearly agreed on the previous ALVs.
The ones that have been proposed previously but not accepted are in the /Proposed ...
5 things from the previous ALV were voted in, but had to be re-worded (minus mailing list). Other 4:
Pending HR-rules from 'Space Rules' vote Do not create or be a fire hazard. (1) Don't use power tools unless you've had a safety briefing on them first. Don't defeat or hack safety features/equipment. (2) Respect fellow members, their privacy and their possessions. (6) No sleeping in the space. (7)
This will be left for the either next ALV, or voted under 4.1.
All the actions were DONE: put Financial report about 2013 on the wiki ask question to WG-terien committee (done) add an agenda point on next ALV to decide who will be in the "dispute committee" at the next ALV, present the tided-up version of HHR based on "rules" from point 6 add rule about payments before 7th to the HHR add rule about non paying members to HHR add a text about warnings & consequences to HHR: add a text in HRR about existence of the "dispute committee" group: add the text about annual ALV in HHR:
Requests: have financial report earlier: tried board expences: not in the report, but it was less then 50
News from the board:
- several board members left
- we got the new space
Vesna: there were other notable events: TC0, Open Hackerspaces day, 3 "kids in space" events, CTF...
2.5 Report from the "members meetings"
(will add text from the sound recording)
Maarten: can the recuring events be on some other days, from time to time? alternate?
2.6. -> moved to later
4.6 4.6 Terms for board members (Wizzup) 4.6.1 4.6.1 Terms of the board members
extra: To avoid deadlocks/problems, the following text is part of the way terms work and gets included in the HR, concerning this: "The treasurer steps down (and is allowed to be re-elected) in even numbered years, secretary and chair in odd numbered years (and are also allowed to be re-elected)"
4.6.2 4.6.2 Direct resignation of any board member exceeding term
Questions: can the board member resign at any time? Question: can the board member re-aply on the same ALV? yes
Wizzup gave an explanation...
Muse: did we get into the loophole here? Interpretation of the room spirit: Nah, we will use common sense.
Votes: a: 18 b: 11 c: 15 d: 3
We have decided that there will be terms for board members, with the comment "3 legal positions need to resign in alternate years". even/odd year rule takes presedence.
It was not clear that the adendum was part of the votable point, but that it will be voted on separatelly.
Some people are concerened that... and will send it to the members.
If there is a fix needed, we can do ti on the next ALV.
4.6.2 Direct resignation
(explanation)
(long discussion)
Point is moot,because of the amendment.
but - do vote seriously:
i) yes: 4
ii) yes: 17
Text was suggested in the ALV agenda; addition of Philip.
Pee break: 21:52 back.
21:55
3. Board elections
3.1 current state of the board
(skipped)
3.2
List of cadidates
1. Julf 2. Phicoh 3. Wizzup 4. Voidz0r 5. Ardaxi 6. Skinnr
(voting procedure explained)
Counting committee: Marijel, Einstein, Webmind.
Short introductions of the six candidates.
In alphabetical order: - Ardaxi - Julf - Phicoh - Skinnr
Congratulations to the new elected members.
Thank you for the voting.
Next: 2.6 Dispute committee
2.6.1 Voting on the number of people
3 or 5 ; odd number ; larger in order to get more overlapping coverage (time)
3 members: 7 5 members: 20
The size is set to 5 people.
((This will be worded later , for the HHR. ))
Official complaint from Maarten: objecting to not having any female members in the dispute comittee.
2.6.2. voting on members of the committee
1 Webmind 2 The Jinx 3 Abraham (not here) 4 Voidz0r 5 Realitygap 6 Einstein
22:54 4 people left, without leaving proxy votes. that makes the quorum to be 23, and majority to be 12.
Dispute comittee members voted in:
1 Webmind 2 The Jinx 3 Voidz0r 4 Realitygap 5 Einstein
23:15 ALV will be finished before midnight. 23:30:42
Let's make it quick.
We can choose to postpone points to the next meeting.
4.1. Previous ALV rules cleanup (Muse)
(explanation...)
4.1.1.
yes: 14 absteinees: 3+1 no: 4
4.1.2
yes: 18 no:
it will be added to HHR
4.2. support for votable points
a) maintainer yes: 19 abst 1 no: 3 (23!)
b)
quorum of 22 , needed 12 for majority
yes/no (default 2%)
yes: 10 => not a majority (10<12) abstenees: 2 no: 9
=
voting for stopping the meeting yes: 15 abst: 1+1? no: 3
let's investigate the quorum question, for the next ALV
taking the points 4.3 4.4 4.5 to the next ALV, and start with it.
let's discus Circle idea before the next ALV. is it simmilar with members meeitngs? is it different?